FSU - OM Warchant message board conversation

[kinsley1m]

I was banned from the Warchant pay board yesterday b/c apparently their board is a safe place for FSU folks to discuss only FSU. I was in conversation with several of the posters there who seemed interested in our team and a fan's thoughts on their team and we went back and forth.

Anyhow, I wanted to see if any of the people on Warchant who appreciated the conversation wanted to continue it here.

As I was saying yeterday, I think our teams have an interesting intersection of strengths and questions going into the season that will make this game a lot of fun to watch unfold.

Undoubtedly, the OM strength will be QB/WR and D-line.

There were several FSU fans that seemed skeptical of our WR unit in light of Treadwell and Core moving to the NFL. I think I did a decent job of telling them our expectations of the unit, about the talent our guys have, the depth, and the absolute lack of concern from the coaches about WR production.

Couple that assumed strength with the fact that FSU lost a lot of d-backfield production. Is that a concern from the FSU fan perspective? I know, like us, you are replacing a quality d-backfield with quality talent. If there's no drop off, will CK be able to throw for 300+ and 2 - 3 TD's. He struggled in the middle of the season against some of the better pass d's.

 

[Reblarry]

I was banned from the Warchant pay board yesterday b/c apparently their board is a safe place for FSU folks to discuss only FSU. I was in conversation with several of the posters there who seemed interested in our team and a fan's thoughts on their team and we went back and forth.

Anyhow, I wanted to see if any of the people on Warchant who appreciated the conversation wanted to continue it here.

As I was saying yeterday, I think our teams have an interesting intersection of strengths and questions going into the season that will make this game a lot of fun to watch unfold.

Undoubtedly, the OM strength will be QB/WR and D-line.

There were several FSU fans that seemed skeptical of our WR unit in light of Treadwell and Core moving to the NFL. I think I did a decent job of telling them our expectations of the unit, about the talent our guys have, the depth, and the absolute lack of concern from the coaches about WR production.

Couple that assumed strength with the fact that FSU lost a lot of d-backfield production. Is that a concern from the FSU fan perspective? I know, like us, you are replacing a quality d-backfield with quality talent. If there's no drop off, will CK be able to throw for 300+ and 2 - 3 TD's. He struggled in the middle of the season against some of the better pass d's.

Thanks for coming over here first of all. You're right about CK. The great thing about him is he learns from past mistakes and doesn't get caught up in arrogance. We got lucky there. We lost two great WRs, but we have plenty more. Cook and Francois are going to be awesome. Francois is no step down from Maguire. Judging from the bowl last year, your defense is very fast. FSU will be ready. I'd say OM wins it as our defense is underestimated, but Kelly et al will be ready too. Close game, OM 27 FSU 21. And I may be completely wrong. Just that I believe Francois will be running for his life. Weird how you got banned from Warchant for a dissenting view. You won't find that here. We are all over the place!

 

[kinsley1m]

Thanks for coming over here first of all. You're right about CK. The great thing about him is he learns from past mistakes and doesn't get caught up in arrogance. We got lucky there. We lost two great WRs, but we have plenty more. Cook and Francois are going to be awesome. Francois is no step down from Maguire. Judging from the bowl last year, your defense is very fast. FSU will be ready. I'd say OM wins it as our defense is underestimated, but Kelly et al will be ready too. Close game, OM 27 FSU 21. And I may be completely wrong. Just that I believe Francois will be running for his life. Weird how you got banned from Warchant for a dissenting view. You won't find that here. We are all over the place!

Most of the warchant's posters didn't really view what I was saying as dissenting. Just talking about our (OM's) team.

I think their o-line will be the unit to watch. Last year they were young, hurt, and shuffling around to make do. They expect to be a lot better this year. Let’s see.

And we will likely be about the same or a bit worse along our d-line. I don’t doubt Speaks, Jones, Haynes or Brown for a second. But you don’t usually replace 3 year starters (Hamilton and Nkemdiche) on the depth chart with first year players and get better.

If FSU’s line gets a consistent push, then that could be the difference maker, especially with young safeties and first year lb’s. Or TC and Gates could have great games to neutralize the push. Or Hartsfield could be as special as we've heard. Lots of possibilities, but I think it’s tilted in FSU’s favor on paper.

 

[pratt12200]

Most of the warchant's posters didn't really view what I was saying as dissenting. Just talking about our (OM's) team.

I think their o-line will be the unit to watch. Last year they were young, hurt, and shuffling around to make do. They expect to be a lot better this year. Let’s see.

And we will likely be about the same or a bit worse along our d-line. I don’t doubt Speaks, Jones, Haynes or Brown for a second. But you don’t usually replace 3 year starters (Hamilton and Nkemdiche) on the depth chart with first year players and get better.

If FSU’s line gets a consistent push, then that could be the difference maker, especially with young safeties and first year lb’s. Or TC and Gates could have great games to neutralize the push. Or Hartsfield could be as special as we've heard. Lots of possibilities, but I think it’s tilted in FSU’s favor on paper.

You are forgetting the wildcard on our line. Gross will slice into most backfields all year long.

 

[kinsley1m]

You are forgetting the wildcard on our line. Gross will slice into most backfields all year long.

Yes, I did. And if he's as productive as ever, then forget everything I said. That's a serious oversight. I hope he can stay healthy, for his sake I mean, dude is a competitor and I want to see him have success.

 

[Lord_Baelish]

What do y'all think the score will be?

 

[kinsley1m]

What do y'all think the score will be?

1) If Chad/WR have plus games and our d-line controls los - 30 - 17 OM.

2) If Chad/WR have plus games and FSU o-line controls los - low 20s toss up.

3) If FSU backfield controls and our d-line controls los - low 20s toss up.

4) If FSU backfield controls and their o-line controls los - 30 - 17 FSU.

I think the third scenario is most likely. Chad will have to start the year the way he ended last year. OM young safeties and new d-linemen will have to be as advertised. Francois is the wild card. Hopefully he's not Manziel.

 

[RedWolfe11]

FSU fan here that participated in the original conversation that was referenced. To clear the record, the convo was civil and respectful. He was banned because one of the rules of the "Tribal Council" (which is our premium members only board) is that it is solely for FSU fans. He was banned for that reason, even though I think it was asinine decision and I blasted the asshat mods for it.

Now that we got that out of the way, back to football talk.

Concerning our (FSU) defensive backfield, most every knowledgable Seminole fan believes our secondary is actually going to be better than last year. Yes, we lost Ramsey who was a special player. But he is just one player. There will be a slight drop off at that one spot, but we are improved at every other spot.

For those that don't follow FSU closely (I am assuming that is everyone reading this) we really run a 4-2-5 as our base defense, even though our coaches don't officially list that. We run the 4-2-5, or Nickle personnel most of the time. That is largely due to the fact that our main competitor for our conference title is Clemson that runs a spread so our defensive personnel is built around stopping spread teams. Similar to what you saw with Alabama building their defense with massive LBs to stop LSU a few years ago when they were battling it out every year, and then they got exploited by spread teams that used their size against them. We sometimes get exposed by big power attacks (see Boston College giving us trouble for several years in a row).

All that to say this: we have 3 corners on the field most of the time. The biggest playmaking position on our defense is the "star" position, or what most people call a Nickle back (3rd corner). But we play that position in multiple ways. That was the position Ramsey played his sophomore year when he put up much better stats and impacted games much much more than his junior (last) year when he played boundary corner. He switched to boundary corner that because he wanted to prove to NFL scouts that he could be an outside corner, and the coaches obliged. But the "star" position is our biggest playmaking and impactful position on our defense, where we usually put our best player.

Our "star" position last year was a lightning quick, strong, athletic player named Tre Marshall. He was on his way to having a breakout year and was playing at an elite level last year. He tore a bicep muscle early in the year and was out all year rehabbing. Otherwise, you would know who he was because he was on his way to All-Conference honors. That was a huge blow to our defense as we didn't have anyone with his skill set to replace him, and we ended up starting a walk-on at that spot for the last 7-8 games of the year.

We have that player back, who is a work out warrior and has improved his speed, strength, and explosiveness in the off-season. Just getting him back is going to be a huge improvement to our secondary.

The corner opposite of Ramsey last year is a stud and would have been drafted last year if he had come out early. (Marquez White). He apparently has had an amazing off-season and expects to play even better as this is just his 2nd year playing football year-round. He split time on our basketball team his first 2 years on campus.

We are replacing Ramsey with a 5-star sophomore that is a physical freak (6'2" 210lb) that was the top corner coming out of highhschool 2 years ago. https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/390
All reports so far is that he is living up to the hype. He would have started at over 90% of power 5 schools last year as a true freshman, but he just happened to be behind a top-5 pick last year.

Lastly, I don't think anyone outside of Tallahasee realizes how good Derwin James is. Just remember that name. After our game you guys will all have a huge amount of respect for him. He is being talked about as having the potential to be the best defensive back to ever play at FSU. If you know our history, you know that is high praise. I think it's a little early to be talking that kind of hyperbole considering we have had many Thorpe award winners and hall of farmers including Deion Sanders. But he certainly is different than any player I have seen. I just don't know what to make of him.

I know many of you are rolling your eyes and thinking I'm a blindly optimistic homer. I'm not. I am pretty objective and have correctly predicted our record before the season for several years in a row now. I said we would lose 2-3 games last year, with a 10-2 regular season (that's exactly what we finished at). So I am not one of these fans that thinks we are going to go undefeated every year. I follow our team closely, know the equipment manager, and get good insight from our closed practices.

If you believe our secondary is going to be something you can exploit, I strongly disagree. It is our deepest and most talented position on our entire team. The only question mark we have is how a 5-star freak of a corner is going to play in his 2nd year, if that's our biggest question mark, I feel pretty good about our secondary.

Any questions feel free to fire away.

I have one question regarding your defensive front, and particularly the interior DL. You guys mostly play a 3-4 correct? You play a true nose guard in a zero-tech. Or do you play more 2 and 3-tech DTs?

Our center is a little undersized and weak compared to the rest of our line. That is my one area of concern. If you have explosive and powerful Nose guard you can push the pocket back into our young QBs face and really cause us issues (yes our freshman is going to start at QB).

I look forward to the insight you provide, as we'll as the game. I will be at the game looking forward to a good early season test to see how we look. Pumped for the game, good luck

 

[jlpayne4]

FSU fan here that participated in the original conversation that was referenced. To clear the record, the convo was civil and respectful. He was banned because one of the ruled of the "Tribal Council" (which is our premium members only board) is that it is solely for FSU fans. He was banned for that reason, even though I think it was asinine decision and I blasted the asshat mods for it.

Now that we got that out of the way, back to football talk.

Concerning our (FSU) defensive backfield, most every knowledgable Seminole fan believes our secondary is actually going to be better than last year. Yes, we lost Ramsey who was a special player. But he is just one player. There will be a slight drop off at that one spot, but we are improved at every other spot.

For those that don't follow FSU closely (I am assuming that is everyone reading this) we really run a 4-2-5 as our base defense, even though our coaches don't officially list that. We run the 4-2-5, or Nickle personnel most of the time. That is largely due to the fact that our main competitor for our conference title is Clemson that runs a spread so our defensive personnel is built around stopping spread teams. Similar to what you saw with Alabama building their defense with massive LBs to stop LSU a few years ago when they were battling it out every year, and then they got exploited by spread teams that used their size against them. We sometimes get exposed by big power attacks (see Boston College giving us trouble for several years in a row).

All that to say this: we have 3 corners on the field most of the time. The biggest playmaking position on our defense is the "star" position, or what most people call a Nickle back (3rd corner). But we play that position in multiple ways. That was Ramsey played his sophomore year when he put up much better stats and impacted games much much more than his senior year when he played boundary corner. He did that because he wanted to prove to NFL scouts that he could be an outside corner, and the coaches obliged.

Our "star" position last year is a lightning quick, strong, athletic player named Tre Marshall. He was on his way to having a breakout year and was playing at an elite level last year. He tore a bicep muscle early in the year and was out all year rehabbing. That was a huge blow to our defense as we didn't have anyone with his skill set to replace him, and we ended up starting a walk-on for the last 7-8 games of the year.

We have that player back, who is a work out warrior and has improves his speed, strength, and explosiveness. That is going to be a huge improve th to our secondary.

The corner opposite of Ramsey last year is a stud and would have been drafted last year if he had come out early. (Marquez White).

We are replacing Ramsey with a 5-star sophomore that is a physical freak (6'2" 210lb) that was the top corner coming out of highhschool2 years ago. All reports so far is that he is living up to the hype. We would have started at 90% of power 5 schools last year as a true freshman, but he was behind a top-5 pick.

Lastly, I don't think anyone outside of Tallahasee realizes how good Derwin James is. Just remember I said that. After our game you guys will all have a huge amount of respect for him. He is being talked about as having he potential to be the best defensive back to ever play at FSU. If you know our history, you know that is high praise.

I know many of you are rolling your eyes and thinking I'm a blindly optimistic homer. I'm not. I am pretty objective and have correctly predicted our record before the season for several years I a row. I said we would lose 2-3 games last year, with a 10-2 regular season (that's exactly what we finished at). I follow our team closely, know the equipment manager, and get good I sit from our closed practices.

If you believe our secondary is going to be something you can exploit, I strongly disagree. It is our deepest and most talented position on our entire team. The only question mark we have is how a 5-star freak of a corner is going to play in his 2nd year, if that's our biggest question mark, I feel pretty good about our secondary.

Any questions feel free to fire away.

I have one question regarding your defensive front, and particularly the interior DL. You guys mostly play a 3-4 correct? You play a true nose guard in a zero-tech. Or do you play more 2 and 3-tech DTs?

Our center is a little undersized and weak compared to the rest of our line. That is my one area of concern. If you have explosive and powerful DTs you can push the pocket back into our young QBs face and really cause us issues (yes our freshman is going to start at QB).

I look forward to the insight you provide, as we'll as the game. I will be the guy sitting on the 50 about 5 rows up. Pumped for the game, good luck

We run a 4-2-5. If you are worried about whether we have decent defensive tackles than you may be in trouble in that spot. That is our strongest position on defense. We have some monsters there.

 

[GoodOleArchieWho]

Good insight here. Not going to get into too much this late but it sounds like our teams have similar defensive schemes. 4-2-5 with a rover position. We line up a DT over the center on most plays and the other in between the OG and OT. We have a couple really powerful DT that are lightning fast off the snap. We have a couple good options at DE in Fadol Brown and Marquis Haynes; the former being a strong, more prototypical DE and the latter being an outstanding pass rusher.

It will be interesting to see if OM can establish any sort of running game. If the rushing attack takes shape, I believe the field will open up a whole lot of Chad Kelly and Co. to toss the ball around. I think this game will be a very entertaining and hard fought opener.

 

[seminole817]

I didn't know this board existed. I definitely am concerned that DJ Jones bullies Eberle (the center). So you think McFadden wins the job over Lewis, @RedWolfe11? I still wonder if Marshall can cover. Fisher sure seems to like him, though.

 

[GoodOleArchieWho]

I didn't know this board existed. I definitely am concerned that DJ Jones bullies Eberle (the center). So you think McFadden wins the job over Lewis, @RedWolfe11? I still wonder if Marshall can cover. Fisher sure seems to like him, though.

Me either. And I just got very confused looking at the threads. It's littered with horrible posters and trolls.

Anyways, back to the football. I would also be concerned about Breeland. He proved last year that he can handle any situation on the interior of the D-line.

 

[JediRebel]

Thanks for coming over and discussing the game.

 

[seminole817]

Me either. And I just got very confused looking at the threads. It's littered with horrible posters and trolls.

Anyways, back to the football. I would also be concerned about Breeland. He proved last year that he can handle any situation on the interior of the D-line.

I agree. I just assume Jones will be there more, especially with this news that Speaks may play outside some, or more.

 

[HottyToddyJosh]

FSU fan here that participated in the original conversation that was referenced. To clear the record, the convo was civil and respectful. He was banned because one of the rules of the "Tribal Council" (which is our premium members only board) is that it is solely for FSU fans. He was banned for that reason, even though I think it was asinine decision and I blasted the asshat mods for it.

Now that we got that out of the way, back to football talk.

Concerning our (FSU) defensive backfield, most every knowledgable Seminole fan believes our secondary is actually going to be better than last year. Yes, we lost Ramsey who was a special player. But he is just one player. There will be a slight drop off at that one spot, but we are improved at every other spot.

For those that don't follow FSU closely (I am assuming that is everyone reading this) we really run a 4-2-5 as our base defense, even though our coaches don't officially list that. We run the 4-2-5, or Nickle personnel most of the time. That is largely due to the fact that our main competitor for our conference title is Clemson that runs a spread so our defensive personnel is built around stopping spread teams. Similar to what you saw with Alabama building their defense with massive LBs to stop LSU a few years ago when they were battling it out every year, and then they got exploited by spread teams that used their size against them. We sometimes get exposed by big power attacks (see Boston College giving us trouble for several years in a row).

All that to say this: we have 3 corners on the field most of the time. The biggest playmaking position on our defense is the "star" position, or what most people call a Nickle back (3rd corner). But we play that position in multiple ways. That was the position Ramsey played his sophomore year when he put up much better stats and impacted games much much more than his senior year when he played boundary corner. He switched to boundary corner that because he wanted to prove to NFL scouts that he could be an outside corner, and the coaches obliged. But the "star" position is our biggest playmaking and impactful position on our defense, where we usually put our best player.

Our "star" position last year was a lightning quick, strong, athletic player named Tre Marshall. He was on his way to having a breakout year and was playing at an elite level last year. He tore a bicep muscle early in the year and was out all year rehabbing. Otherwise, you would know who he was because he was on his way to All-Conference honors. That was a huge blow to our defense as we didn't have anyone with his skill set to replace him, and we ended up starting a walk-on at that spot for the last 7-8 games of the year.

We have that player back, who is a work out warrior and has improved his speed, strength, and explosiveness in the off-season. Just getting him back is going to be a huge improvement to our secondary.

The corner opposite of Ramsey last year is a stud and would have been drafted last year if he had come out early. (Marquez White). He apparently has had an amazing off-season and expects to play even better as this is just his 2nd year playing football year-round. He split time on our basketball team his first 2 years on campus.

We are replacing Ramsey with a 5-star sophomore that is a physical freak (6'2" 210lb) that was the top corner coming out of highhschool 2 years ago. https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/390
All reports so far is that he is living up to the hype. We would have started at over 90% of power 5 schools last year as a true freshman, but he just happened to be behind a top-5 pick last year.

Lastly, I don't think anyone outside of Tallahasee realizes how good Derwin James is. Just remember that name. After our game you guys will all have a huge amount of respect for him. He is being talked about as having the potential to be the best defensive back to ever play at FSU. If you know our history, you know that is high praise. I think it's a little early to be talking that kind of hyperbole considering we have had many Thorpe award winners and hall of farmers including Deion Sanders. But he certainly is different than any player I have seen. I just don't know what to make of him.

I know many of you are rolling your eyes and thinking I'm a blindly optimistic homer. I'm not. I am pretty objective and have correctly predicted our record before the season for several years in a row now. I said we would lose 2-3 games last year, with a 10-2 regular season (that's exactly what we finished at). So I am not one of these fans that thinks we are going to go undefeated every year. I follow our team closely, know the equipment manager, and get good insight from our closed practices.

If you believe our secondary is going to be something you can exploit, I strongly disagree. It is our deepest and most talented position on our entire team. The only question mark we have is how a 5-star freak of a corner is going to play in his 2nd year, if that's our biggest question mark, I feel pretty good about our secondary.

Any questions feel free to fire away.

I have one question regarding your defensive front, and particularly the interior DL. You guys mostly play a 3-4 correct? You play a true nose guard in a zero-tech. Or do you play more 2 and 3-tech DTs?

Our center is a little undersized and weak compared to the rest of our line. That is my one area of concern. If you have explosive and powerful Nose guard you can push the pocket back into our young QBs face and really cause us issues (yes our freshman is going to start at QB).

I look forward to the insight you provide, as we'll as the game. I will be at the game looking forward to a good early season test to see how we look. Pumped for the game, good luck

First, good lord that's a long reply haha

Secondly I was looking at y'all depth chart and recruiting over the last 4-5 years and you guys are definitely stacked in the secondary. It should be a fun match up because I believe we have a top 3 WR core, top 3 QB and a great pass catching TE.

Curious though, how much man do you guys generally play?

 

[RedWolfe11]

First, good lord that's a long reply haha

Secondly I was looking at y'all depth chart and recruiting over the last 4-5 years and you guys are definitely stacked in the secondary. It should be a fun match up because I believe we have a top 3 WR core, top 3 QB and a great pass catching TE.

Curious though, how much man do you guys generally play?

Hahaha, yeah I kinda got carried away. Didn't realize how long it was until I finished, considered deleting some to shorten it, but just said "F it".

I hope I didn't ramble on too bad. And yes, our secondary is loaded.

We play a good amount of man. Also run a lot of pattern matching zone concepts. Play some hybrid man/zone schemes as well. Jimbo is a Saban disciple so he likes the pattern matching stuff that Saban runs, but Jimbo also loves for his defenses to be "multiple", so we run a little bit of everything depending on the gameplan for that weeks matchup.

 

[RedWolfe11]

I agree. I just assume Jones will be there more, especially with this news that Speaks may play outside some, or more.

Well then, it seems like my #1 concern is now our center vs. your nose tackle.

Here is a copy and paste from the previous thread on the FSU board where I was answering kinsley's question concerning our run game last year. A little more insight into our team for you:


Thanks for weighing in with your thoughts. To answer your question about O-line, we were very young and inexperienced last year coming into the year. Our LT had started 6 or 7 games the previous year as a true freshman, and he was the only one with any starting experience. To make things worse we had 5 or 6 key injuries that forced us to start 9 different starting unit combinations up front. You add injuries to a young and inexperienced group up front, and it's amazing that cook was able to find the success he had behind that group. I don't think our QBs helped the situation either.

Also, our offensive system is heavily dependent on a very good center. Jimbo and Trickets blocking schemes demand that our center take very challenging angles and reach blocks in our zone running game. We were not strong at center last year and started a very undersized and weak player that was not yet ready (young) and he got pushed around. That same player is about 15lbs heavier this year and should hold up better. If not, he has a 320lb #1 ranked center in the country behind him that will be a true freshman. We also moved over a stud athlete from DE to RT, and he looks like a great fit thus far. 6'7" athlete who put on 25lbs this off-season to be above 300lbs now for the year,

We are very excited to see what cook can do behind this line that looks to be much improved from a year ago. Your D-line should offer us a very good test I week one to see how much they have improved.

 

[seminole817]

First, good lord that's a long reply haha

Secondly I was looking at y'all depth chart and recruiting over the last 4-5 years and you guys are definitely stacked in the secondary. It should be a fun match up because I believe we have a top 3 WR core, top 3 QB and a great pass catching TE.

Curious though, how much man do you guys generally play?

Not him but FSU blitzes a pretty good amount. With a LB (less so it seems like), boundary CB, star, or James. So there will be man on 1 side of the field probably but a guy like James or Nate Andrews will probably be over the top. James can cover more ground but he's also a good blitzer

 

[seminole817]

Well then, it seems like my #1 concern is now our center vs. your nose tackle.

Here is a copy and paste from the previous thread on the FSU board where I was answering kinsley's question concerning our run game last year. A little more insight into our team for you:


Thanks for weighing in with your thoughts. To answer your question about O-line, we were very young and inexperienced last year coming into the year. Our LT had started 6 or 7 games the previous year as a true freshman, and he was the only one with any starting experience. To make things worse we had 5 or 6 key injuries that forced us to start 9 different starting unit combinations up front. You add injuries to a young and inexperienced group up front, and it's amazing that cook was able to find the success he had behind that group. I don't think our QBs helped the situation either.

Also, our offensive system is heavily dependent on a very good center. Jimbo and Trickets blocking schemes demand that our center take very challenging angles and reach blocks in our zone running game. We were not strong at center last year and started a very undersized and weak player that was not yet ready (young) and he got pushed around. That same player is about 15lbs heavier this year and should hold up better. If not, he has a 320lb #1 ranked center in the country behind him that will be a true freshman. We also moved over a stud athlete from DE to RT, and he looks like a great fit thus far. 6'7" athlete who put on 25lbs this off-season to be above 300lbs now for the year,

We are very excited to see what cook can do behind this line that looks to be much improved from a year ago. Your D-line should offer us a very good test I week one to see how much they have improved.

I'm on warchant. I saw the thread. I'm a fan of both teams.

 

[RedWolfe11]

I didn't know this board existed. I definitely am concerned that DJ Jones bullies Eberle (the center). So you think McFadden wins the job over Lewis, @RedWolfe11? I still wonder if Marshall can cover. Fisher sure seems to like him, though.

@seminole817 yes, I believe McFadden wins the spot. Lewis will still get plenty of snaps, he is too good to keep off the field. I could see them sliding him down into the star position if we are facing a team with a good slot receiver. Marshall does struggle at times in man coverage s that get a good release on him. But he is great in run support, a great blitzer, and does very well in the short and intermediate zone coverages. He also surprised me with how well he covered some TEs, as I thought his height wouldn't allow him to do that. He reminds me a lot of Joyner.

 

[seminole817]

@seminole817 yes, I believe McFadden wins the spot. Lewis will still get plenty of snaps, he is too good to keep off the field. I could see them sliding him down into the star position if we are facing a team with a good slot receiver. Marshall does struggle at times in man coverage s that get a good release on him. But he is great in run support, a great blitzer, and does very well in the short and intermediate zone coverages. He also surprised me with how well he covered some TEs, as I thought his height wouldn't allow him to do that. He reminds me a lot of Joyner.

This is what I've wondered against teams like Ole Miss and Clemson. We didn't get to see Marshall play against Clemson. He was ejected early against Miami

 

[RedWolfe11]

This is what I've wondered against teams like Ole Miss and Clemson. We didn't get to see Marshall play against Clemson. He was ejected early against Miami

Yeah, I think for running downs we have Marshall at star and Andrews at the safety spot. On passing downs you slide Lewis in at Star and drop Marshall back to the FS spot. He has much better speed than Andrews and can cover a lot more ground playing that center field position.

Honestly I am hoping Andrews has his role relegated back to only the money position in Dime packages. He excels at that. Has great instincts and is physical but lacks elite athleticism and speed. He played exclusively in the money spot in his freshman year during our championship year, and he lead the team in interceptions (that secondary included 5 guys that have been drafted, including 2 1st rounders)

 

[NC nole fan]

Sorry you got banned OP. You didn't do anything to deserve that at all. You're okay in my book.

As for the game, I think FSU has more talent top to bottom, and "should" win the game assuming they play well in all three phases and don't beat themselves with turnovers and stupid penalties. But it is far from a given. I can definitely see Ole Miss winning. They may end up being the best team FSU faces all season. Just a few more days guys! Can't wait!

 

[RedWolfe11]

Sorry you got banned OP. You didn't do anything to deserve that at all. You're okay in my book.

As for the game, I think FSU has more talent top to bottom, and "should" win the game assuming they play well in all three phases and don't beat themselves with turnovers and stupid penalties. But it is far from a given. I can definitely see Ole Miss winning. They may end up being the best team FSU faces all season. Just a few more days guys! Can't wait!

Agreed on the first few points, but Clemson is the best team on our schedule and it ain't close.

We can compliment our Missisippi friends here without being disingenuous haha

 

[RedWolfe11]

Ok last question for OM fans before I go to sleep. Do you guys view Chad Kelley as an immensely unlikable person?

Honestly not trying to troll or flame with this question. No doubt he is talented but I've seen some of his interviews and read his quotes and.... Well.... Interested to know what you guys think of him outside of his ability to throw or scramble.

 

[NC nole fan]

Agreed on the first few points, but Clemson is the best team on our schedule and it ain't close.

We can compliment our Missisippi friends here without being disingenuous haha

I hear ya haha, but I'm not sold on Clesmon just yet. They lost a lot on defense and they are gonna have to prove to me that they aren't a one hit wonder. If they can come into Doak and beat a championship caliber FSU team then I will change my tune. I don't think they will though. Ole Miss has beaten Bama two years in a row including once in Tuscaloosa. That deserves much respect.

 

[RedWolfe11]

I think we beat them this year as well, but that doesn't change the fact that they are vastly better than anyone else we play in the regular season.

Lot of people talked about how much they had to replace on defense last year and they turned out to be even better. Have you followed their recruiting the past couple years? I love our D-line and I would trade with theirs in a heart beat. They are stacked with talent.

Not to mention they have the best QB in the country throwing to the best WR corps in the country behind a returning OL.

One hit wonder? They kicked Oklahomas ass and Ohio States ass in bowl games after 10 win seasons in the 2 years prior to last year. They have been legit for a while now.

 

[NC nole fan]

I think we beat them this year as well, but that doesn't change the fact that they are vastly better than anyone else we play in the regular season.

Lot of people talked about how much they had to replace on defense last year and they turned out to be even better. Have you followed their recruiting the past couple years? I love our D-line and I would trade with theirs in a heart beat. They are stacked with talent.

Not to mention they have the best QB in the country throwing to the best WR corps in the country behind a returning OL.

One hit wonder? They kicked Oklahomas ass and Ohio States ass in bowl games after 10 win seasons in the 2 years prior to last year. They have been legit for a while now.

Good points. Still though, the elephant in the room when it comes to Clemson is FSU. Can they beat a championship caliber FSU more than once in a blue moon? They can win 10 plus games every season and beat all those other teams you mentioned all they want, but if they can't beat FSU consistently it won't amount to a hill of beans. Ole Miss is recruiting about as well as anyone lately too and they have taken down the king twice. I don't see a huge difference between Clemson and Ole Miss.

 

[kinsley1m]

Ok last question for OM fans before I go to sleep. Do you guys view Chad Kelley as an immensely unlikable person?

Honestly not trying to troll or flame with this question. No doubt he is talented but I've seen some of his interviews and read his quotes and.... Well.... Interested to know what you guys think of him outside of his ability to throw or scramble.

Not at all. Sure, if he were mediocre or only slightly above average and still displayed the same maturity that he did even just a few months before he arrived at Ole Miss, then it would be a different story.

But honestly, what I've seen is a guy working very hard to get to the next level, and that includes leadership. He talked himself and our team up at SEC media days, and because we've seen him put the work in (and believe he can take us there), we back him.

The case against Winston being unlikable is/was much stronger during his time at FSU and I'm sure fans resisted thinking him unlikable. That's not a flame either. Just pointing out what you already know, home team gets the pass. I think Chad's earned it.

 

[RedWolfe11]

Not at all. Sure, if he were mediocre or only slightly above average and still displayed the same maturity that he did even just a few months before he arrived at Ole Miss, then it would be a different story.

But honestly, what I've seen is a guy working very hard to get to the next level, and that includes leadership. He talked himself and our team up at SEC media days, and because we've seen him put the work in (and believe he can take us there), we back him.

The case against Winston being unlikable is/was much stronger during his and I'm sure FSU fans resisted thinking him unlikable. Tbh, I wasn't paying much attention. That's not a flame either.

Don't want to get into the Winston thing, but him being "unlikable" is because everyone was led to believe he was a rapist and that was driven by the worst character assassination campaign I've ever seen by the media. He is actually a very likable figure and you will see that in another year or two in the NFL once the media narrative changes.

But I can understand the comparison from someone not familiar with the details of Winston's situation.

You guys back him because he is talented, sure I get that. But you really think he is a remotely likable person off the field?

Jalen Ramsey played at FSU and I think he is very hard to like. It's ok to be objective.

 

[NC nole fan]

Not at all. Sure, if he were mediocre or only slightly above average and still displayed the same maturity that he did even just a few months before he arrived at Ole Miss, then it would be a different story.

But honestly, what I've seen is a guy working very hard to get to the next level, and that includes leadership. He talked himself and our team up at SEC media days, and because we've seen him put the work in (and believe he can take us there), we back him.

The case against Winston being unlikable is much stronger btw, and I'm sure FSU fans backed him. Tbh, I wasn't paying much attention. That's not a flame either.

Actually it wasn't. The media (ESPN) blew the Winston thing way out of proportion and basically turned every non-FSU fan against him, Jimbo, and the FSU program with their false, one sided narrative. Winston was never charged and never arrested, and last I checked he is doing pretty well for himself and is doing it with class. Truth is, the media loved Winston before the false allegation came to light. He did do some silly things at FSU (crab legs, bb gun fight, cursing in the student union) but that stuff was minor and would have never seen the light of day without the false sexual assault allegation. But that's all water under the bridge now. Thank goodness.

 

[kinsley1m]

Don't want to get into the Winston thing, but him being "unlivable" is because everyone was led to believe he was a rapist and that was driven by the worst character assassination campaign I've ever seen by the media. He is actually a very likable figure and you will see that in another year or two in the NFL once the media narrative changes.

But I can understand the comparison from someone not familiar with the details of Winston's situation.

You guys back him because he is tented, sure I get that. But you really think he is a remotely likable person off the field?

Yeah, I changed some of my words on Winston. My point was fans are invested in seeing the good in their jersey. I don't see Chad being a insufferable douche during a pick-up game of basketball, if that's what you mean. Or Johnny Manziel type.

 

[MississippiBOM]

Very well thought out post. Kelly turned the corner mid season and started putting up video game stats when HE STARTED RUNNING. Our running backs have also improved. Pick your poison. Another thing is you're starting a freshman QB is a high pressure game. NOBODY can tell how that will work out. It doesn't matter how talented you are everywhere else, I feel your game will hinge on the young QB (lot of pressure). His spring game film looked pretty sloppy. I think we will pick up where we left off. I'm positive it will be the best game on Labor Day ;-)

 

[kinsley1m]

Very well thought out post. Kelly turned the corner mid season and started putting up video game stats when HE STARTED RUNNING. Our running backs have also improved. Pick your poison. Another thing is you're starting a freshman QB is a high pressure game. NOBODY can tell how that will work out. It doesn't matter how talented you are everywhere else, I feel your game will hinge on the young QB (lot of pressure). His spring game film looked pretty sloppy. I think we will pick up where we left off. I'm positive it will be the best game on Labor Day ;-)

Kelly ran, but he also started throwing against mediocre pass d's. That's what concerns me.

 

[pdubb09]

Kinsley thanks for coming by our site and sharing some good info for the Ole Miss perspective. Can't believe they booted you. I as well voiced my displeasure with the "FSU fans only rule." I hope you were on a 7 day free trial, because if you paid for a WC membership and got banned that's brutal. Anyway, look forward to some more banter leading up to the game. What's this I hear about you guys losing a RB to grades today? Was he someone that was gonna see significant PT?

 

[HightowerReb]

FSU fan here that participated in the original conversation that was referenced. To clear the record, the convo was civil and respectful. He was banned because one of the rules of the "Tribal Council" (which is our premium members only board) is that it is solely for FSU fans. He was banned for that reason, even though I think it was asinine decision and I blasted the asshat mods for it.

Now that we got that out of the way, back to football talk.

Concerning our (FSU) defensive backfield, most every knowledgable Seminole fan believes our secondary is actually going to be better than last year. Yes, we lost Ramsey who was a special player. But he is just one player. There will be a slight drop off at that one spot, but we are improved at every other spot.

For those that don't follow FSU closely (I am assuming that is everyone reading this) we really run a 4-2-5 as our base defense, even though our coaches don't officially list that. We run the 4-2-5, or Nickle personnel most of the time. That is largely due to the fact that our main competitor for our conference title is Clemson that runs a spread so our defensive personnel is built around stopping spread teams. Similar to what you saw with Alabama building their defense with massive LBs to stop LSU a few years ago when they were battling it out every year, and then they got exploited by spread teams that used their size against them. We sometimes get exposed by big power attacks (see Boston College giving us trouble for several years in a row).

All that to say this: we have 3 corners on the field most of the time. The biggest playmaking position on our defense is the "star" position, or what most people call a Nickle back (3rd corner). But we play that position in multiple ways. That was the position Ramsey played his sophomore year when he put up much better stats and impacted games much much more than his senior year when he played boundary corner. He switched to boundary corner that because he wanted to prove to NFL scouts that he could be an outside corner, and the coaches obliged. But the "star" position is our biggest playmaking and impactful position on our defense, where we usually put our best player.

Our "star" position last year was a lightning quick, strong, athletic player named Tre Marshall. He was on his way to having a breakout year and was playing at an elite level last year. He tore a bicep muscle early in the year and was out all year rehabbing. Otherwise, you would know who he was because he was on his way to All-Conference honors. That was a huge blow to our defense as we didn't have anyone with his skill set to replace him, and we ended up starting a walk-on at that spot for the last 7-8 games of the year.

We have that player back, who is a work out warrior and has improved his speed, strength, and explosiveness in the off-season. Just getting him back is going to be a huge improvement to our secondary.

The corner opposite of Ramsey last year is a stud and would have been drafted last year if he had come out early. (Marquez White). He apparently has had an amazing off-season and expects to play even better as this is just his 2nd year playing football year-round. He split time on our basketball team his first 2 years on campus.

We are replacing Ramsey with a 5-star sophomore that is a physical freak (6'2" 210lb) that was the top corner coming out of highhschool 2 years ago. https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/390
All reports so far is that he is living up to the hype. We would have started at over 90% of power 5 schools last year as a true freshman, but he just happened to be behind a top-5 pick last year.

Lastly, I don't think anyone outside of Tallahasee realizes how good Derwin James is. Just remember that name. After our game you guys will all have a huge amount of respect for him. He is being talked about as having the potential to be the best defensive back to ever play at FSU. If you know our history, you know that is high praise. I think it's a little early to be talking that kind of hyperbole considering we have had many Thorpe award winners and hall of farmers including Deion Sanders. But he certainly is different than any player I have seen. I just don't know what to make of him.

I know many of you are rolling your eyes and thinking I'm a blindly optimistic homer. I'm not. I am pretty objective and have correctly predicted our record before the season for several years in a row now. I said we would lose 2-3 games last year, with a 10-2 regular season (that's exactly what we finished at). So I am not one of these fans that thinks we are going to go undefeated every year. I follow our team closely, know the equipment manager, and get good insight from our closed practices.

If you believe our secondary is going to be something you can exploit, I strongly disagree. It is our deepest and most talented position on our entire team. The only question mark we have is how a 5-star freak of a corner is going to play in his 2nd year, if that's our biggest question mark, I feel pretty good about our secondary.

Any questions feel free to fire away.

I have one question regarding your defensive front, and particularly the interior DL. You guys mostly play a 3-4 correct? You play a true nose guard in a zero-tech. Or do you play more 2 and 3-tech DTs?

Our center is a little undersized and weak compared to the rest of our line. That is my one area of concern. If you have explosive and powerful Nose guard you can push the pocket back into our young QBs face and really cause us issues (yes our freshman is going to start at QB).

I look forward to the insight you provide, as we'll as the game. I will be at the game looking forward to a good early season test to see how we look. Pumped for the game, good luck

Thanks for your participation in this thread. I must say this is the best thread the board has seen in a long time. The board in general has been taken over by trolls and (presumably out of boredom) many of us, including me, have responded to them in less than ideal ways.
I, along with most rational posters see the FSU game as an uphill battle. Do we see it as winnable? Yes, but far from certain. Anyone who thinks OM wins this by three scores is nuts.

 

[Lord_Baelish]

The media (ESPN) blew the Winston thing way out of proportion

false, one sided narrative.

(crab legs, bb gun fight, cursing in the student union)

sexual assault allegation.

You have to admit that he gave the media plenty to talk about. I bet if he played for the Gators you would feel a bit differently.

 

[pdubb09]

Thanks for your participation in this thread. I must say this is the best thread the board has seen in a long time. The board in general has been taken over by trolls and (presumably out of boredom) many of us, including me, have responded to them in less than ideal ways.
I, along with most rational posters see the FSU game as an uphill battle. Do we see it as winnable? Yes, but far from certain. Anyone who thinks OM wins this by three scores is nuts.

I know what you are saying. I was skimming some other threads and could see what you are referring to. This is the 1st time ever, yes ever since I joined rivals in 2004 that I have ever posted on another message board. I don't even go to the main boards. So to think there are people that have literally no life that they have the time to waste to talk message board smack on a site dedicated to another school is well, pretty pathetic. I especially got a kick out of the Bama trolls calling y'all cheaters. If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black. Or the Auburn fan who says Auburn never paid Cam, they just lucked out b/c Miss St got a request from Cecil Newton and backed off and Cam just fell into their lap. I live in Atlanta and it's fairly common knowledge that old Cecil's church was the money laundrymat. Besides, that whistle wasn't blown until well after Cam was at Auburn. So to act like someone let the cat out of the bagman's bag in January of 2010 is preposterous. It's probably a good karmatic practice to refrain from finger pointing b/c it just starts the clock until it's your schools turn.

I give Ole Miss props for scheduling FSU in Orlando. It's certainly not a game that an SEC school needs to play. Although the league seems to be following Bama's lead on scheduling these neutral site openers. This first weekend is great to see. It reminds me of the early to mid 90's when there were all the Kickoff Classic games in the Meadowlands and various NFL stadiums. I even see where Florida even scheduled Michigan in Dallas next year. That's like press stopping news right there. I mean, if there is one school that seems to never get hammered for never playing anything that resembles a competitive non conference game (outside of their in state rival) it's Florida. They still have not scheduled a non conference true road game in decades. Hell, it's like pulling teeth to just get them to play Miami. Thank about taking a dump on your boosters a season ticket holders who fund your program. I bet LSU fans can't wait to check out a game in Lambeau field.

If there's one thing that Ole Miss has working for them it's experience at the QB position. I don't care how highly rated Fancois was/is, and I understand Jimbo is as good as there is at developing college QB's, but it's still his first game. I'm confident in our defense. I think you guys will get your yards b/c Freeze is a good offensive coach, but I'm fairly certain we don't give up anymore than 20-24 points unless we turn it over 3 or 4 times. I feel like we'll know how this one is gonna go by about FSU's 2nd possession. If Ole Miss stacks the box, which I assume they will, and Jimbo still tries to be run centric then we are probably in for a tough night. If he lets DF throw right off the bat b/c the match ups are favorable, then we know that he has confidence that 12 can win through the air. Looking forward to it.

 

[pdubb09]

You have to admit that he gave the media plenty to talk about. I bet if he played for the Gators you would feel a bit differently.

That's mostly b/c ESPN would not cover it if a Gator player was in that situation. It's happening right now as a matter of fact. The same Title IX money grabbers are on their way to extract money in the Antonio Calloway deal. But have you heard a damn thing aside from the fact that he's been cleared of any wrong doing? How come Mark Schlabach isn't camped out in Gaineville thumbing through traffic tickets at the PD and coming up with a bottom line scroll that UF's RB knew a guy that committed a crime once?

 

[RedWolfe11]

Let's not turn this into a Winston thread. Sorry if I struck a nerve with my inference that Kelly seems to be a world class douche. The last time I played any attention to him was when he signed with Clemson, came out with a rap video, proceeded to talk trash to all the QBs on the roster, then promptly gets kicked out for being an entitled brat. It takes a lot to get kicked out of Clemson. So he may have matured since then? I haven't been paying attention.

I guess we deserved a shot at Winston for that. I understand why outsiders have the opinion they do on Winston becuase of what they have been "told", and it's a damn shame honestly. I will leave this topic alone.

Back to the football talk: what are your LBs like? Bigger run stuffers or smaller faster types? Dalvin has been known to absolutely destroy pursuit angles with his speed, how do you guys think you match up here? Any LB that you are confident can cover him in the flats on swing routes? (We run a lot of that btw)